I have just signed up to Facebook... interesting stuff.The Facebook phenomenon is a no-brainer as a social networking tool but the jury seems to be out with respect to it as a business tool.
As usual there are the networking junkies (who have migrated through Facebook, Ecademy, LinkedIn, Plaxo etc) who will tell you that it (whatever the latest fad is) is the best thing since sliced bread.
I am going to stay with Facebook for at least a month. I have my own page (please do find 'Robert Craven' and please ask to be my 'friend'...) and so does The Directors' Centre (please do find 'The Directors' Centre' and please ask to be a 'fan'...). I will report back in a month and let you know whether it has worked for me.
Already
- I have come across five old school friends ('why didn't we maintain contact for over 30 years?')
- have touched base with five very useful business contacts (excellent)
- rekindled relationships with about another half-dozen people and
- have 'chatted' with about a dozen avid supporters who I didn't even know existed before this week.
So far so good.
26 comments:
I've tried Twitter for a month, but somehow 'don't get it' ;-)
I do prefer Facebook with its visual to all conversations, pages and groups - simple ways to announce new articles of your blog etc.
Twitter is now the hype - but I can only see it as 'watching' only one side of a conversation. In this age of conversation I think it's lopsided. But that's me.
(Plus I can't seem to write things within 140 characters, life - including business life - is to interesting to squeeze into 140 letters)
I'll find you on Facebook to become friends that way too.
Karin H (Keep It Simple Sweetheart, specially in business)
p.s. Thanks for your book, arrived today!
Facebook, and the like, are designed by those Generation 'why?' people with little time and few real friends. It seems that there are quite a few who fit their demographic.
You mentioned, Robert, some if its obvious uses, (pitfalls perhaps,) but, as with other serious, goal driven people, you mention no real, tangible benefits. OK, so now that Karin and Robert are "Friends" and have another platform within which to chat, what now? What next? What does it all mean?
As for the school reunion with 30 of your colleagues, as you rightly ask, why haven't you kept in touvh/got in touch before now?
It stikes me, that unless you are either well under 18, a struggling artist, or a narcissist, or indeed all three, there are many, many better ways by which to network and get the word out.
Facebook is an utter waste of bandwidth, as are myspace and twitter. Try Linked-In; far more subtle and designed for the players, not the losers.
The Facebook experiment has a few weeks to go but I am starting to see potential business benefits.
I have been 'found' by three conference organisers and been invited to work with them.
We have had seven converations with potential delegates about the workshops we run...
We have had a similar number of conversations about books...
One potential order for 1,000 books
But... nothing in the cash-flow yet.
We all know that networking is not about the quick sale (agreed) and that it is about going out and reaching/touching new/old people and benefitting from their contacts... I guess this is starting to happen
Maybe Facebook is too 'light'/trivial... maybe it attracts a certain sort of person... but I am still open..
You could argue that the potential clients could have googled RC to find me but... they didn't. Will I get the work? Would I have got it without Facebook? Who knows.
Maybe the good old 80:20 applies here... 80% of the good activity comes fro 20% of the people. Are these odds good enough for me?
As I said, the jury is out and I have another 26 days to go.
"OK, so now that Karin and Robert are "Friends" and have another platform within which to chat, what now? What next? What does it all mean?"
Chat? ;-)
No, now - if Robert checks his 'friends' updates regularly - follow links to interesting other articles in his field which I enter in "What I'm doing".
And if he does the same, I and his other friends, will read what Robert finds interesting and worthwhile.
And there are plenty other benefits and advantages in Facebook: organise an online workshop and let everyone register through Facebook (or through one of the applications on Facebook).
Mail all your fans of your page or followers in your group at the same time.
Plenty of more possibilities than just another 'chat-platform'.
Besides, many - and I've got many real friends ;-) - are on Facebook too, so we can keep track of each other more often than during those 'reunions'
Karin H
Roebert - Bizarre that the "conference organisers" were aparently only seeking conference speakers, specific or otherwise, on Facebook. I'm very suspicious of this, and I'd be interested in hearing whether any of this activity gets converted into hard cash.
I've had many conversations about this, and unfortunately, as it is so easy to "connect" through the Facebook trend, there are high incidence rates of scams, and moreso, sheer bulls**t.
Surely, if someone is serious about business, they will find a good service by the usual means, such as recommendations, articles, books and google? Why does one need a Website, a Blog and Facebook? The answer is clearly in the hyperbole that the people at FB would have you believe.
Your experiment has already been done, and has so far, been unsuccessful for good connections. I'm not so sure that this Yellow Pages on steroids is actually anything of substance, whilst I do hope your efforts pay dividends.
Incidentaly, I spoke to three very intelligent undergrad students yesterday who I teach business skills to, all of them are at an Ivy League US Uni, and all favour Facebook, (apparently MySpace is "totally" out of fashion now). When asked how much time they spend on FB, they worked out that it was a minimum of 3 hours per day, regularly.
Then, when I questioned them about the tangible benefits, aside from knowing where their "friends" are, there were few. In fact there had actually been incidents of information getting out to the "wrong person" such as their professors, potential employers etc. There is even a term now for FB members that invariably attract odd followers, it is "face-stalker."
You talk about "pond-life" and I believe, that at the end of this experiment of yours, you will only have attracted such.
Karin, the features you mention, and the other benefits, already exist in a better, more structured way. To use the FB features for client business, only leaves you open to abuse, no-show attendees, and the leaking of confidential client information. Data mining and ID theft are rife via Facebook, some through simple use of the site, and the rest through using the "features" which have repeatedly been shown to harbour mailicious "mining" programmes.
As to the rest of the features you mention, the more personal connections, I think you have proven the point that it induces the type of zero-return distractions that geeks would have you believe are necessary.
My opinion is that if you are going to do something, do it properly. FB is simply another form of that look-busy, disorganised nonsense -"multi-tasking."
Is Facebook good for business? I say not for the serious.
Andy, each its own.
Your experience with Facebook - 1st or 2nd hand - differs from my own and other business contacts.
It's down to what you give, relate to and allow.
Is Facebook good for business? Many serious businesses have found it is.
Is blogging good for businesses? Many serious businesses - ours among them - have found it is.
Karin H
Karin, not a case of "each to their own," - no such thing in business. More like "each to them that has the time to waste" with such platforms...
Whereas the research is already out on the uses of Facebook and it's pitfalls, I doubt that you could tell me to the nearest 1000, with any certainty or honesty, the tangible benefits of being on FB. What you have said so far is fluff, and cannot be converted into cash, or goodwill.
My main point, aside from the inherent lack of confidentiality and security with FB, was that spreading one's self too thinly, as opposed to doing one thing well with a degree of exclusivity, doesn't pay off. It is merely a very temporary phenomenon, induldged in by those who have been drawn in to the modern ADD-driven nonsense.
It has become so bad now, that even those with professional blogs employ content writers to post and reply within them, as the succesful simply do not have the time; they tend to do one blog and one website really well, and leave the rest to the ADD crowd and the lonely, who all look a bit desperate..
Having just read through Roberts blog, it is quite clear that he often has little time himself to reply to every legitimate reply. One has to ask then, aside from a soap-box, what's the point?
My opinion is still that FB is for certain ego's, not for serious business individuals, and belies the success of those who open them....
"More like "each to them that has the time to waste" with such platforms..."
So web-marketing is time-wasting? Not in my book, our business is growing because of it.
Time wisely spent on activities that have proven their ROI is investment, not a waste.
Karin H.
Great to see the debate evolving...
I will keep you posted...
Robert
Karin, I didn't say that web-marketing was a waste of time, to think that would be absurd. What I did clearly say, was that FB was a waste of time.
You still fluff on about business growth due to Facebook, but still offer no proof that your business has grown directly as a result of your hanging out there every hour -as opposed to actual relationship building - meeting people face to face etc.
If I'm looking to purchase a wooden floor from you, am I to believe that the best way to test your mettle and references is to;
1. Open an account on Facebook
2. Build my profile up there by adding personal and hyperbolic information about myself
3. Add you as a friend
4. Wait for you to ascertain who I am and hope that you add me as a "friend"
5. Send you a message on the public message board of your page asking you to provide me with a lost of your last ten customers as references
6. Ask you for a quote
Would it not be simpler, (and would it not be saner) for me to either ask some friends for a referal, or if there are none, google local wooden floor providers, then pick up the phone and talk to you or email you?
It's usually only the busiest people who are still serious about buying in a climate such as this one. It is also, in my experience, the historically most demanding customers who are still there wanting to purchase in times like these. The foundational reason for their survival, to date, has been their eye for detail and belief in 100% quality.
Not one of these people would ever venture into such a platform as Facebook to do business, and all of them believe in doing business with referals, evidence of a great structure, great quality, honest pricing, a look in the eye, and a handshake. As I have been one of these myself, and largely do business with this type, I can honestly say that I would question a business who's owner has the time to spend on Facebook with their "friends," as there is always work to be done and improvements to be made.
Besides this, If directed to seek them via FB, I would immediately wonder where their past customers have all gone, and why they have to find new ones on a teenage messaging interface. I therefore think it can be actually detrimental to one's brand, backwards instead of forwards.
I'm all for experimenting with useful ways of doing business. But I've seen this tried already, (unsuccessfully,) here in the US, and I believe that what you are doing is merely the UK's lag.
Karin, it's bad to keep fooling one's self that because society
"digs" something it works for business, and especially when you haven't even measured it properly.
Good luck with the experiment Robert, I'll send you the outcome today in a sealed envelope if you wish. I'm quite fascinated about what your decision process was for joining Facebook - especially when you depend upon hard-earned credibility as your foundation.
Can you tell us a bit about what lead you to take the plunge? Cheers.
Case in point:
BBC News March 2nd 2009.
Facebook Users Suffer Viral Surge
"Facebook has been targeted by malicious hackers seeking to steal valuable data from members.
The social network site has been hit by five separate security problems in the last seven days, say security experts.
By creating fake messages padded with details of Facebook members the thieves are capitalising on the trust and social links that drive the network.
Security firms warn that the popularity of social networking sites makes them a tempting target for hi-tech thieves."
There are enough headaches in business without this...
This last message (virals etc) is cause for concern... although all your friends etc are there dor all to see/take in any case!
RC
RE: WHY DID RC LOOK AT FACEBOOK...? There are a few answers but in brief:
1) At least half of my audiences (6-7,000pa) are under 40y old (and I am not) and are v small businesses...
2)We run marketing/delegate acquistion programmes for some of our sponsors and clients and wanted to see if this was another/alternative channel to use... (vs google adwords, Ecademy...)
3) We want to explore/experiment ourselves (my office not just me!) before we disregard it out of hand.
Trust this makes sense...
RC
Exactly Robert Craven "Your friends etc are there for all to see/take in any case" is the exact exploitation method used by the data miners, I would not want my clientele posted there for "all to see". Imagine passing a virus to them as well as sharing their info to the planet. Bad news for this silly phenomenon called face book.
Interesting debate, love it. My experiences on facebook as a biz tool are:-
i. Labour intensive, full time affair. Have to monitor hourly when off the ground.
ii. Highly untargeted. People who feequent are usually tyre-kickers, people interested in you personally and people looking for free information and a social life.
iii.The traffic didnt convert well at all. Even in the begining, every day I got at least 4 questions and "pokes" from people asking me for help or feedback. I didnt mind because I love to help but had to get someone else to start answering the 25+ questions that came in daily after month 2. I then had to separate my best answers for my paying clients.
iv. After month 6, I had zero conversions. Whereas I had 75% conversion my other internet marketing forums, including Blog. How good is an offer of paid coaching to a group of people who are looking for free services anyway? Why else are they on Facebook instead of looking by other ways - as poster "Andy" said.
v. I wouldn't have known the results if I hadn't have tested it for myself. Although the research has already been produced by some Uni's and consultant giants. Hence the reason why they don't use it themselves for business prospecting.
vi. There was far too much "pond life" to deal with in Facebook a term I learnt from you.
vii. Facebook is now actively selling your connections to corporations as a direct marketing/advertising tool. The software "farms" the "keywords" used in your conversations with your "friends." The information gleaned is then used for targeted email campaigns and annoying on screen advertising to them whenever they view your page in future. Clever, but not good for your image or your clients' wellbeing. Why should Facebook get to have your connections? Well, because they're not yours once you take advantage of a "free" account and regsiter your "friends." You now belong to Facebook. Nothing of value is free!
Viii. Only 92 of Facebooks 23,160 applications are for business. Of the business appliactions, 50 are designed to record your data, keywords etc, as a sell-on tool for Facebook. The remainder are there just for "fun." A telling picture.
Hope this helps. I will join the wager proposed by "andy" and add money for charity if wrong.
Face Book? Fun but that is all! Dont be such a skinflint & join a pro/biz site!!
Re Andy:
"Karin, it's bad to keep fooling one's self that because society
"digs" something it works for business, and especially when you haven't even measured it properly."
I'm not fooling myself, I'm - like every business should - testing and measuring the uses of various Social Media Tools. Some work on one level, some work on other levels, some work best when you combine Social Media Tools together.
Just because other say it's a waste of time, doesn't mean others who have/are gaining marketing success through Facebook/Twitter and the likes are fooling themselves.
Perhaps the better question would be: how do they do that, and learn - adapt, combine, copy - form it for your own business benefit.
80/20 rule: 20% of Facebook users will have the 80% of profit because they found, know, realise the best way to use/combine it with other tools.
I'm still learning, never said I was THE Expert on Facebook, and I learn from those friends (not one-off's) who are sharing their methods through all the features Facebook gives and other combined tools.
The Web is flexible, on a fast pace and changing through users content.
And I love this versatility it brings with it. Otherwise we would still be spending - wasting more like - money on Yellow Pages ads.
Karin H
Sorry but it still sounds like fluff from you Karin H;
Quote "80/20 rule: 20% of Facebook users will have the 80% of profit because they found, know, realise the best way to use/combine it with other tools."
Especially when the only measurement you can offer is that old "finger in the wind for the blind" a pareto principle.
Oh well
Fluff it is then.
Which reminds me, retailer is selling digital wood products thanks to Social Marketing Tools (combination of). Fluff too?
It's the fluff I like - profit ;-)
Karin H
12 days to go with the 'great experiment' and little change in measurable, tangible results. Lots of new 'friends' for the 'Robert Craven' page, a few people finding 'The Directors' Centre' page. All good stuff but nothing tangible.
Because FB's search function is by name (eg 'Robert Craven' or 'The Directors' Centre') and not more general like google (eg 'consultancy' or 'business growth' or 'seminars') so the business page does not grow as fast as the personal page.
All questions posed earlier seem valid: the current feeling here is that there has been plenty of activity but not much business to date. However one new piece of work would pay for the whole experiment.
We had several measures of succeess (delegates to Barclays events... potential speaking bookings... consultancy discussions) but our main objective was to prove FB's value (or not) for ourselves.
12 days to go.
RC
Very interesting. We were only talking about this the other day, and wondered "how was it for you, dearest?"
Thanks for the update, looking forward to the results.
Oh well
Fluff it is then.
Which reminds me, retailer is selling digital wood products thanks to Social Marketing Tools (combination of). Fluff too?
It's the fluff I like - profit ;-)
Karin H
Re Andy:
"Karin, it's bad to keep fooling one's self that because society
"digs" something it works for business, and especially when you haven't even measured it properly."
I'm not fooling myself, I'm - like every business should - testing and measuring the uses of various Social Media Tools. Some work on one level, some work on other levels, some work best when you combine Social Media Tools together.
Just because other say it's a waste of time, doesn't mean others who have/are gaining marketing success through Facebook/Twitter and the likes are fooling themselves.
Perhaps the better question would be: how do they do that, and learn - adapt, combine, copy - form it for your own business benefit.
80/20 rule: 20% of Facebook users will have the 80% of profit because they found, know, realise the best way to use/combine it with other tools.
I'm still learning, never said I was THE Expert on Facebook, and I learn from those friends (not one-off's) who are sharing their methods through all the features Facebook gives and other combined tools.
The Web is flexible, on a fast pace and changing through users content.
And I love this versatility it brings with it. Otherwise we would still be spending - wasting more like - money on Yellow Pages ads.
Karin H
Karin, I didn't say that web-marketing was a waste of time, to think that would be absurd. What I did clearly say, was that FB was a waste of time.
You still fluff on about business growth due to Facebook, but still offer no proof that your business has grown directly as a result of your hanging out there every hour -as opposed to actual relationship building - meeting people face to face etc.
If I'm looking to purchase a wooden floor from you, am I to believe that the best way to test your mettle and references is to;
1. Open an account on Facebook
2. Build my profile up there by adding personal and hyperbolic information about myself
3. Add you as a friend
4. Wait for you to ascertain who I am and hope that you add me as a "friend"
5. Send you a message on the public message board of your page asking you to provide me with a lost of your last ten customers as references
6. Ask you for a quote
Would it not be simpler, (and would it not be saner) for me to either ask some friends for a referal, or if there are none, google local wooden floor providers, then pick up the phone and talk to you or email you?
It's usually only the busiest people who are still serious about buying in a climate such as this one. It is also, in my experience, the historically most demanding customers who are still there wanting to purchase in times like these. The foundational reason for their survival, to date, has been their eye for detail and belief in 100% quality.
Not one of these people would ever venture into such a platform as Facebook to do business, and all of them believe in doing business with referals, evidence of a great structure, great quality, honest pricing, a look in the eye, and a handshake. As I have been one of these myself, and largely do business with this type, I can honestly say that I would question a business who's owner has the time to spend on Facebook with their "friends," as there is always work to be done and improvements to be made.
Besides this, If directed to seek them via FB, I would immediately wonder where their past customers have all gone, and why they have to find new ones on a teenage messaging interface. I therefore think it can be actually detrimental to one's brand, backwards instead of forwards.
I'm all for experimenting with useful ways of doing business. But I've seen this tried already, (unsuccessfully,) here in the US, and I believe that what you are doing is merely the UK's lag.
Karin, it's bad to keep fooling one's self that because society
"digs" something it works for business, and especially when you haven't even measured it properly.
Good luck with the experiment Robert, I'll send you the outcome today in a sealed envelope if you wish. I'm quite fascinated about what your decision process was for joining Facebook - especially when you depend upon hard-earned credibility as your foundation.
Can you tell us a bit about what lead you to take the plunge? Cheers.
Roebert - Bizarre that the "conference organisers" were aparently only seeking conference speakers, specific or otherwise, on Facebook. I'm very suspicious of this, and I'd be interested in hearing whether any of this activity gets converted into hard cash.
I've had many conversations about this, and unfortunately, as it is so easy to "connect" through the Facebook trend, there are high incidence rates of scams, and moreso, sheer bulls**t.
Surely, if someone is serious about business, they will find a good service by the usual means, such as recommendations, articles, books and google? Why does one need a Website, a Blog and Facebook? The answer is clearly in the hyperbole that the people at FB would have you believe.
Your experiment has already been done, and has so far, been unsuccessful for good connections. I'm not so sure that this Yellow Pages on steroids is actually anything of substance, whilst I do hope your efforts pay dividends.
Incidentaly, I spoke to three very intelligent undergrad students yesterday who I teach business skills to, all of them are at an Ivy League US Uni, and all favour Facebook, (apparently MySpace is "totally" out of fashion now). When asked how much time they spend on FB, they worked out that it was a minimum of 3 hours per day, regularly.
Then, when I questioned them about the tangible benefits, aside from knowing where their "friends" are, there were few. In fact there had actually been incidents of information getting out to the "wrong person" such as their professors, potential employers etc. There is even a term now for FB members that invariably attract odd followers, it is "face-stalker."
You talk about "pond-life" and I believe, that at the end of this experiment of yours, you will only have attracted such.
Karin, the features you mention, and the other benefits, already exist in a better, more structured way. To use the FB features for client business, only leaves you open to abuse, no-show attendees, and the leaking of confidential client information. Data mining and ID theft are rife via Facebook, some through simple use of the site, and the rest through using the "features" which have repeatedly been shown to harbour mailicious "mining" programmes.
As to the rest of the features you mention, the more personal connections, I think you have proven the point that it induces the type of zero-return distractions that geeks would have you believe are necessary.
My opinion is that if you are going to do something, do it properly. FB is simply another form of that look-busy, disorganised nonsense -"multi-tasking."
Is Facebook good for business? I say not for the serious.
I've tried Twitter for a month, but somehow 'don't get it' ;-)
I do prefer Facebook with its visual to all conversations, pages and groups - simple ways to announce new articles of your blog etc.
Twitter is now the hype - but I can only see it as 'watching' only one side of a conversation. In this age of conversation I think it's lopsided. But that's me.
(Plus I can't seem to write things within 140 characters, life - including business life - is to interesting to squeeze into 140 letters)
I'll find you on Facebook to become friends that way too.
Karin H (Keep It Simple Sweetheart, specially in business)
p.s. Thanks for your book, arrived today!
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