Robert Craven's book is 'Bright Marketing - why should people bother to buy from you?'. (And his latest is 'GROW YOUR SERVICE FIRM'.)
What a bunch of losers. Clearly they do not get you. Nor do they read very carefully. With accountants like that no wonder the profession has such a bad name.Oh Mr Craven you naughty self-publicist.
It does seem to be an uphill struggle with some people, doesn't it!David
I wouldn't waste your time on this. A minor diversion.You are, however, right that they are out there, these wallies.You mneet them everywhere and they just don't see that they have become anacchronistic. No womder so many are losing money.Like the BL, they should go. They shoot horses don't they!
If they don't get it then they should be on thier bike. No point working with anyone who doesn't get your way of working.
Of course he is right. Ok, I know Robert personally and have talked to him about such matters, but let's just examine the sentence that Steve posted: “If you are not delighted and ecstatically happy with your accountant, and you don’t think your accountant is helping you to get more customers, get more sales, get more profits, get more cash into your business then you should change accountant. It’s as simple as that.”One qualification I would add is that it's only true for clients in business who do not have all the necessary resources in house.What Robert is saying is that the best accountants (for businesses) CAN do all those extra things over and above preparing annual accounts and filing tax returns. If you're in business and you could benefit from that additional input then it makes sense to get it from someone who knows your business and has the skills and experience to provide it. Your accountant. I suspect we would all agree that the vast majority of clients would never describe themselves as "delighted and ecstatically happy" with their accountant. We tend to assume that such clients would never react that positively. But I wonder if that's as much a reflection on our attitudes and our focus on day to day recurring compliance services. Markwww.BookMarkLee.co.uk
Only those accountants who understand what it is to be in business and to serve clients and to exceed their expectations deserve to stay in business. The rest are arrogant fools and should be the first against the wall come the revolution (if we can be bothered to waste our bullets on them).Bonnie
CENSORSHIP ON THE INTERENET AGAIN - THE POSTING HAS VANISHED. WHY???STEVE
OMG - this is a scandal - bloody fascistsJim
see Monty Python on the subjecthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMOmB1q8W4Y
http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/anyanswers/robert-craven-right-when-he-says-clients-should-sack-their-accountant/478984is back minus some rather unplesant comments - all tidied up by the nice people at Sift Media
So, what was removed? What was written that was so terible that they had to take it down?"Long Live the Dictator! Censorship is a good thing for the People"
I suspect that Robert Craven is a bit of a twitDifferent people's wants and needs are different when it comes to accountancy services.Perhaps he could explain how I am supposed to help my farming clients to get more customers when they sell everything through a consortium. When he has done that perhaps he could tell me how to increase the sales of my head hunter client. As an encore perhaps he could help my four public house clients to go against the trend and "get more cash" in. PR
No. Why-o-why do we give these self publicists publicity it only makes them worse!I cannot really be bother to say more.Now I've fallen into the trap.
Self publicising planks The best thing most businesses can do is kick "business authors" and self styled gurus into touch. The only "sales" this clown is interested in increasing is sales of his own book, and the best way to do that is to write something controversial.
Why he is NOT a self publicistSlight misunderstanding… … Robert Craven didn’t say that quote in his book, or even about his book. So he is NOT being a self publicist. He says it in a video testimonial he gave to his accountant, which appears on the accountants website here: http://www.clearvisionaccountancygroup.co.uk/clientslives/RobertCMain.html In other words he is singing the praises of his accountant, Rob Walsh, who clearly does all the good things in the quote, since that is obviously what Robert really wants and expects a good accountant to do for him (after all, most accountants do profess to be “Business advisors”, don’t they?)And I suspect a lot of other good clients feel the same.Certainly a lot of Rob Walsh’s clients do, and they are prepared to pay good money for it too, since as the article shows, Rob’s average fees are over £5,000 per client and his personal profits are £200-280k a year, as you can see here…http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/topic/practice/why-over-50-practicing-accountants-are-making-losses/478533
The problem is ...... quality of service comes in shades of grey. And their charges come in shades of, er, red.It can be problematic to demonstrate that your extra fees compared with the competition are more than recouped by the client.But that is really a separate issue. If you are dissatisfied with your current accountant then you still need to be confident that the one to whom you move is better. And if there is some wonder-accountant out there who does a perfect job for a reasonable fee, he will soon be so inundated with work that the quality of service will then suffer and you will be back to square one.With kind regards
He is right AND wrongHe is right that business owners who are expecting their accountant to help them meet their business and personal objectives should look for an alternative, if their needs are not being met.He is wrong to suggest that all business owners have the same expectation of their accountant. Many just want a compliance service, delivered in a friendly and competent way.As ever, sweeping generalisations do nobody any good.
Meaningless testimonialsI could trot out a few clients who think we are wonderful, so could every accountant on here. No doubt we all have clients who are disatisfied too because no matter what you do some people are never satisfied.Tell a client you just got him a £5k refund and you're wonderful. Tel him his tax bill went up by £5k this year and you're useless. That I'm afraid is a fact of life.
Terrible premonition ....that this thread will unleash the accounting gospel bringers. I've met 4 clients today and I would be doing pretty well to get £5k in fees between them ... still they clearly have a rubbish accountant!
A necessary evilI think most clients see accountants as a necessary evil to keep the taxman and the other bureaucrats off their backs. Most people just want 4 things from their accountant:1) keep their tax bills as low as possible2) meet all compliance deadlines so no hassle from the authorities3) not to waste their time with boring admin stuff; and4) as low a fee as they can get away with!If I started asking my clients what their goals were in life and how could I help, they would say "Just get the accounts done on time - that's what I pay you for!"True, most clients have a need for business advice and other added value services at some time, but it tends to be the exception rather than the rule. The trick is to be proactive and anticipate their needs, without badgering them into extra services they don't really need. They'll see right through that, just like a spam e-mail, and if you're not careful yours will end up in the spam filter too.Obviously this lot in Corsham are doing well for themselves, assuming those figures are accurate, but why should they pass on the secret of their success to others for nothing? I suspect it is no more than a get rich quick scheme based on the same old marketing-speak we've heard so many times before.
As much as possible for as little as possibleIt's all very well Robert Craven saying that but 99% of clients want as much as possible for as little as possible. I could upsell all day long but if clients aren't prepared to pay for it I'm wasting my time.
... then you wouldn't be "upselling", you would be marketing unsuccessfully! I agree with the sentiment though, you need to know your clients and what they want. No point trying to sell a Rolls Royce to a Fiesta driver.But I think Steve Pipe's theme here is that there are some dissatisfied Rolls Royce buyers out there if we're prepared to up our game and target our services appropriately. I don't know where they hang out, but I'd love to meet some!
Of course he is right. Ok, I know Robert personally and have talked to him about such matters, but let's just examine the sentence that Steve posted above: “If you are not delighted and ecstatically happy with your accountant, and you don’t think your accountant is helping you to get more customers, get more sales, get more profits, get more cash into your business then you should change accountant. It’s as simple as that.”One qualification I would add is that it's only true for clients in business who do not have all the necessary resources in house.What Robert is saying is that the best accountants (for businesses) CAN do all those extra things over and above preparing annual accounts and filing tax returns. If you're in business and you could benefit from that additional input then it makes sense to get it from someone who knows your business and has the skills and experience to provide it. Your accountant. I suspect we would all agre that the vast majority of clients would never describe themselves as "delighted and ecstatically happy" with their accountant. We tend to assume that such clients would never react that positively. But I wonder if that's as much a reflection on our attitudes and our focus on day to day recurring compliance services.
Doing a little bit extraMy clients include mainly fiesta drivers but I do little things like carrying their business cards with me so that I can refer business to them as a plumber, consultant or whatever. It's no extra effort for me and I'm as happy to pass on one of their business cards as my own. If their business improves even a little they may upgrade to a mondeo.I also keep an eye out for marketing and business ideas for them (while looking out for stuff for myself) and either contact them or stick a postit on their file for the next meeting.Is this good marketing or adding value? It's free and easy for me.
I'm singing the same old tune.Accountants have the opportunity to recommend services for clients from third party organisations that will save them tax. I'm talking here about the owners of commercial property who, if there accountant recommended, could investigate whether a capital allowances claim would produce a tax rebate for them.Time and time again we talk to potential clients aout what can be achieved but when they go to their accountant they either say they have claimed all that can be claimed or they just rubbish the idea.We have just been offered some work by an accountant who took on a client two weeks ago because the client was disatisfied with his previous accountants services. By contacting us the accountant is going to save his client between £12k and £18k in tax. For this the accountant and his client have had to provide very minimal information.I know it is a cliche I think some accountants need to think outside of the box and look at what other services they could be offering. There is incremental income to be made if the accountant wishes but the impotant thing is the client is getting a complete service and the accountant is maximising their tax savings.Apologies probably taring to many people with the same brush but there does sem to bean element of complacency amongst some in the profession who also claim they cannot do anything to shape their own future.Angry of XXX
Here's the highlights from the AccountingWeb discussion. Nothing too controversial and names hidden to protect the innocent...RC
MOST clients should sack MOST accountants.
5 Signs it's Time to Fire Your Client - Bob Reiss - http://bit.ly/bJr6dT
Accountants still a trusted source of advice, say SMEhttp://www.smh.com.au/small-business/accountants-still-a-trusted-source-of-advice-say-smes-20110401-1cpz2.html
They just do NOT have a clue
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