Our time is up. One month on I said I would get back to you with the results."WHY DID RC LOOK AT FACEBOOK...? There are a few answers but in brief:
1) At least half of my audiences (6-7,000pa) are under 40y old (and I am not) and are v small businesses...
2)We run marketing/delegate acquisition programmes for some of our sponsors and clients and wanted to see if this was another/alternative channel to use... (vs google adwords, Ecademy...)
3) We want to explore/experiment ourselves (my office not just me!) before we disregard it out of hand.
We had several measures of success (delegates to Barclays events... potential speaking bookings... consultancy discussions) but our main objective was to prove FB's value (or not) for ourselves."
GENERAL SUMMARY
It has been great to find a whole bunch of old school friends It has been great to get to understand how FB works. The volume of activity is very high but not very focused or relevant. Great to have another outlet for the blog.
BUSINESS SUMMARY
We have not sent out a single additional invoice as a result of our FB activity. Without a half-decent search facility, people will never find you unless they have been specifically pointed towards you. Question: What does your FB activity (and that of your 'friends') say about you? LinkedIn has been far more useful even if the interface isn't desperately user-friendly.
Question: Is it crucial to the success of our business?
Answer: No
28 comments:
But did you try the Facebook Advertising? It's very specifically targeted. This has worked for my business - as a result I have generated several leads and converted 10% and has paid for itself several times over.
Note for further testing - on any social media tools: check what you write and make sure it does get the message through in all its details.
Like the announcements of the workshops you had in there: Ramada hotel.
Which Ramada Hotel??????
Even if you can't set it in the main title, plenty of space in the area below to mention the exact location.
Oh, and perhaps replying to comments on the events would have helped to get some business from it. Think you used it more as a 'static' extra announcement board than as an interactive medium.
But that's me ;-)
Karin H (Keep It Simple Sweetheart, specially in business)
Bamps
Tell me more... do contact me on rc@directorscentre.com ... whta industry/business are you in etc?
Robert
Karin
Totally valid comments -
(re the events page on facebook for 'The Directors Centre')
1) 'Bristol' does appear in the address but not in the title.
2)Your 'comment' has only just been found as it was hidden at the bottom of event page - we (think that we) weren't notified that it had been posted and would only have found it had we checked each event page on a regular basis.
We'll keep the 'L' plates on for a while yet!
Robert
Robert, you made me think for one moment I was completely stupid ;-)
Read and re-read the whole page again and again before I placed my comment in there. When I first saw the notification in truly only said: The Ramada Hotel without the address, honestly!
L-plates - the more you 'drive' the better you get at anticipating 'traffic' (or in other words: if you want your web-site, even on social media, to work - you'll have to work on your website)
Karin H
So interesting results, but fully expected. However, I'm surprised that the replies here infer yet another wave of support for Facebook.
"Bamps" mentions that they pay for clicks, and that they have "generated several leads and converted 10% and has paid for itself several times over," but does not say what their business is, and if the figures really support the statement.
If one is selling sparkly trinkets or miracle acne remedies, it would perhaps be understandable to have a few sales from click advertising. Would there be a critical mass over time, I think not, (and so does the historical data).
Also, if FB is so wonderfully and relevantly connected, why on earth hasn't it improved the availability of its search technology, to aid members in seeking out specifics?
Karin, you are correct about postings being appropriately detailed. However, the problem still exists as to WHO specifically you are being specific to. I also took a look at the DC-RC pages in question, and immediately found sufficient detail to be able to locate an event, and even if there weren't, a simple, free, intelligent, initiative driven nanosecond later, one could find The Directors Centre easily to be able to enquire.
Do you really want the sort of "customer" who has little intellect, even less initiative, and so probably even less in their bank account, attending an event? What sort of conversion is this?
I argue that, in making people work a little in filling in the detail, you'll end up with attendees who are actually serious about what you are giving them, and not tire kickers. You may be selling your "Simple" advice to the "Stupid" (your words not mine,) but I think that the Driectors Centre brand is worth considerably more. Even a glance at the latest offering aimed at larger companies says that the brand is aiming where it should, and so progressing not regressing.
As to the pay to play "service" from FB, why on earth would one want to pay someone for these bovine types to find you? And why would the larger company take you serious about your consultancy if this is your other target customer?
So, aside from selling trinkets or wooden floors, (retail is VERY different from the DC services offered,) if you want to buy in to the hyperbolic nonsense about FB, increase their revenue, increase your burn rate, lower your conversion rates AND you brand image, FB is indeed the place for you. FB even has a rate-card if you ask for it, and will do many many things for money that basically abuses the information they get from their members.
The first discussion about FB was an experiment, despite the evidence already being out there, but OK a new experiment by DC. However, this entire consideration about FB and its "uses" is annoyingly at odds with the great advice and tools in your books, Robert, and especially the parts about branding, pond-life, etc.
Hopefully for you your clientele don't start to think so also. If you go too far this way, you'll definitely be sorry. If this is so, good luck with your new "non-profit" FB brand....
Andy
We have no intention of creating a "non-profit" brand. Neither do we wish to damage the existing brand... Just sharing our experiences and lack of business that FB has produced.
Robert
PS I won't name the activity but as a teenager in a compromising situation I was once challenged with the phrase "You can't knock it till you've tried it". In this instance (FB)I have tried it. (I don't apply this rule to everything!)
RC
Hi Andy
I should have been more clear. I've done two different advertising campaigns so far - one was for B2B - offering internet related services - I ran this for approximately 60 days in a specific region aimed at a specific age group with keyword targeting such as business and self employed.
The other campaign I ran albeit on a smaller scale was for an on-line toy shop (Treeblocks.co.uk)- I think I only put £2.00 per day and generally aimed at women of a certain age group. Looking at our stats - we get around 150 visitors per week from Facebook - conversion/bounce rate is unknown at this time, but we know from the Treeblocks fan page on facebook - we've got several new customers. Search Treeblocks on Facebook.
Robert, understood, and delighted to hear that DC aims to stay "profitable."
As to the teenage experience, indeed, I had a similar one I wanted to try - the first time didn't last long, nor did it live up to expectations for those involved.
Thus, the only thing to do was to find out what worked, (especially as there were many, false fables about the miraculous, usually from those who hadn't but said they had,) practice this, and give up what clearly didn't.
This all lead to a largely successful series of outcomes, and a great deal of satisfaction, or dare I say - ROI!
Hello Bamps, thanks for the further detail.
Am I to elicit that you ran the B2B service for 60 days, but no longer saw it viable enough to continue?
By the way you phrased it, you saw it viable to continue with the retail side, and still do so.
This would make sense that the retail type of business, and especially toys aimed at women (the mind boggles).
Very simple - I had too much work for Bamps - and I did not want to take on extra work that I couldn't promise to fulfil - nor did I want to take on more staff or outsource.
In terms of income, B2B has generated more, however I think the B2C will better in the long term.
It's being an early adopter right now that I believe has helped get results, surprisingly not many companies have adopted this medium.
Well, I find Facebook a useful way to keep in touch with those I'm mentoring - so it's a good after care tool. It has the right informality that relaxes and encourages people to be open and honest
Like you, it's never delivered me any £££ though - but has prob saved me time
Robert Ashton, interesting angle, but is FB faster than email?
Sorry to jump in again so soon on this thread. But, aside from the regular data leaks by FB, isn't it a little worrying for your clientele that your shared information is posted on what is essentially a public forum?
So, what are the real benefits over the proven, successful means of contact?
My words, Andy? Advice to the Stupids?
Glad I'm in the educational side of business. Stupid people nor stupid questions exist. Only people missing information, which we supply for free on all of our web presences: from static website, dynamic and interactive website, facebook, twitter and AWeber auto-responder. Each and combined providing multiple access for those looking for advice, information and knowledge on wooden flooring in those formats they prefer. Retail is in this regard the same as any service business.
Karin H
Hmm, everything but Ebay it seems Karin. I suppose a small business would try to scatter their presence. However, although you seem to believe you have discovered the ultimate sales weapon, it's still an awful lot of noise to sell a wooden floor. You still have not offered any viable evidence that it works, and don't seem to be able to grasp the basic metrics beyond feels-good, nice and fluffy.
Missing information? Your many, many portals may seem the way for someone who wants a cheap solution. However, when a year ago I wanted wooden floors fitted throughout an apartment I rent out, the choices to be made in order to purchase a floor that would be suitable and would last etc, were huge. I asked around for recommendations, explored a couple of high quality companies, the on and off-site consultation they provided, (free,) and the ability to see and feel their products in their showroom, and indeed, to see some of their finished work at reference sites, was invaluable. Just one aspect of having level floors prevented a nightmare.
The most valuable aspect was their incredibly patient, consultative approach. They ensure that they fully understood the requirements before recommending a range of products. There was absolutely no pressure from them, just an obligation from me to meet them half way with the information and time commitments.
It all conveyed professionalism, built a relationship with the client, and ensured that I would have no hesitation in investing in their services. This is all essential in building a great business with a great bottom line. If you have this, you can pretty much guarantee repeat business etc. With your own approach, it looks as though this is all missing, and that you are constantly having to find new business, by any means possible. I don't think I would have given your company a second glance, however professional you might be in reality. First impressions count, and so does a degree of exclusivity. The prospect must be prepared to do some work towards the desired outcome, otherwise they are just not good prospects.
As to your retail business being "the same as any service business," this is simply wrong. Clients want to feel that they are employing professional, discreet, services. Buying consulting services, is entirely different from buying retail goods. Service execution depends upon creating real, long-term, trusting relationships, (your business could focus on this, though). E-tail is usually price dependent and a customer could go anywhere thereafter.
McKinsey, BCG etc have tried FB, and it did not work. If you look at their pages, you'll see that they are out of date and mothballed. As to your own business segment, Home Depot FB - failed; B&Q - failed and decided to make it a "fun" site for people to post pics of themselves related to B&Q. Does it lead to direct sales or even goodwill, no.
I'm sorry to say that what we are witnessing here, is yet another echo of those past dot.com hypes, and this sort of extraneous mechanism doesn't lead to bottom-line increases. It looks even worse when measured properly.
Any self-respecting business who's success depends upon building instant rapport and trust will never seek clients via Facebook. Any self-respecting, serious client, (with a real problem to solve and real money to spend,) would be highly embarrassed at approaching someone for professional services via this method.
Andy, your missing the point of my comment
Why not start here and see how you get on with information gathering, and do read how others have found the interaction with our retail business in wooden flooring through the various mediums we provide our prospects/clients.
(As for proof it works: best ever Feb and March in the books this year.)
Then I suggest we talk again.
Karin H
Yes Karin, nice website, a little dated and uninspiring in terms of energy, also does not convey the elegance one would expect, but ok.
Surprised that there is a booklet that one has to purchase. Why not draw them in in a friendlier way?
Congratulations on your "best ever" Feb and March, but we have gone in a circle again - how do you know where your results come from? How do you know that FB is pivotal to your success to date? How do you know that your latest success isn't simply organic?
Also, I think we've now established that retail is, in fact, entirely different from professional services. Still 100% unconvinced about your FB approach being worth revenue.
Good luck for the rest of 2009!
"but we have gone in a circle again - how do you know where your results come from?"
Test, measure, tweak.
We are one of those businesses who do know which famous 50% of marketing costs bring in the results.
And coming full circle: FB and all other web-marketing tools are that: multiple pillars of marketing, bringing in multiple pillars of income. Every proper business knows that and works on that. FB is part of the whole, not a single item that has to top everything after only 1 month of testing.
Like I said in an earlier comment: if you want your webmarketing, even on social media, to work - you'll have to work on your webmarketing.
Do you have a business? A website, blog, AWeber or like-wise email marketing tool, a squido lens or whatever? What's your experience in these for the webmarketing for your business?
(Or is it all hearsay: shelf-development instead of self-development/business-development?)
Karin H
Karin, I'm happy for your alleged success factors, but you still make little sense in terms of what works, and have the habit of talking in quite fluffy terms. You also keep changing your angle slightly, but still say the same things, without saying anything of substance.
Thus, when one looks at the bottom line, something which you don't seem to have a grip on, there is little to differentiate what you say about business from that of a spotty, teenage, FB addict. Reading your advice is a bit like listening to virgins talk about sex.
I don't wish to be rude or attack you, but quite frankly you come over as someone who has commendable self-belief, but doesn't know anything about business metrics. You quote like a Covey book, but offer little else. Business is not simple, as your brand states, it is incredibly serious, and involves a disciplined application of solid, proven, techniques and tools of which takes years to become a master of application. That is why there are only a handful of people in the World who offer what works, the DC team and Robert being one of those rarities.
If it seems as though I'm having a go at you, it isn't personal, it is that I can't abide people who give unsubstantiated advice which contradicts the evidence from proven research, and I feel even worse about those who sell/peddle it.
The fact that you don't see fit to regulate your success down to one business segment, i.e. the one you have experience at, is naive, and although your motives may be good, it is quite dishonest.
Besides, I've already conceded that it may work for retail, to a degree, but the fact that you propound FB as a Holy Grail that fits all businesses makes you somewhat dangerous, if someone who's business is struggling were to take your advice.
It is wonderful for the FB founders that they have such die-hard fans as you, but the blind eventually see what was always there, that there are limits to what a single, nonexclusive, social networking platform will do. Perhaps you will be a late developer.
As to my own perspective, and as you ask for my qualifications, aside from having worked as part of many successful businesses, the successes of which were partly built on "hearsay," (an invaluable tool for those who choose their counsel wisely,) my latest venture was as a co-founder and developer of the award winning services m3planning dot com, a product of which is mystrategicplan dot com.
Aside from this I work with industry as an individual, to help others, but also to keep my perspective current and valid.
Thank you for asking, and good luck with your FB. I trust you'll continue to have lots of fun with it.
"but the fact that you propound FB as a Holy Grail that fits all businesses makes you somewhat dangerous, if someone who's business is struggling were to take your advice.
"
Ah, you know me so well.
There is a difference between participating in a network and selling to it.
Facebook is a Social Network, not a Business Directory. See Social Networking in Plain English for a great quick video on the subject.
Participants in a network are involved in relationships around some sort of exchange. Social networks like Facebook are great for keeping up to date with your friends, acquaintances and peers.
The subjects discussed in social networks include business so should you spend business time interacting with people on Facebook? That really depends on what you are selling so ask yourself a question;
'Is facebook a good place to find and connect with those people with access & influence in my market?' If the answer is yes then join and start adding value in groups that are relevant. Start your own group to interact with those people that you already do business with that like interacting on facebook. I do that and generate well qualified paying guests for our membership groups. They are attracted or invited by people they know, like and trust already.
Participants in a Network like facebook or subsets of it may be part of your target market so the question to ask then is 'Does facebook have good numbers of potential customers?'. If that answer is yes investigate facebook advertising.
Some here need to reread the main posting about the experiment - it didn't work for this type of business and my experience is it doesnt work for most. Way too much white noise to battle through, meaning way too much effort only to find folk who dont want to pay for services. What a waste.
Dave Clarke's right on point about Facebook being a social networking site, not a biz site. I dont know any serious players with cash to spend on their business who have the time to even register an account with Facebook. I also dont know of any serious players who offer worthwhile services who would look twice at using this for Business Development.
The picture is right on point about it being for narcissists, and I cant help thinking that folks who use Facebook for BD are desperate, and/or dont have good sales skills.
Leave it to the kids and the friendless and grow up folks - use the phone and the real face to face networking opportunities. If you and your product are any good this will yield so much, you wont have time for FB either.
Some here need to reread the main posting about the experiment - it didn't work for this type of business and my experience is it doesnt work for most. Way too much white noise to battle through, meaning way too much effort only to find folk who dont want to pay for services. What a waste.
Dave Clarke's right on point about Facebook being a social networking site, not a biz site. I dont know any serious players with cash to spend on their business who have the time to even register an account with Facebook. I also dont know of any serious players who offer worthwhile services who would look twice at using this for Business Development.
The picture is right on point about it being for narcissists, and I cant help thinking that folks who use Facebook for BD are desperate, and/or dont have good sales skills.
Leave it to the kids and the friendless and grow up folks - use the phone and the real face to face networking opportunities. If you and your product are any good this will yield so much, you wont have time for FB either.
Karin, I'm happy for your alleged success factors, but you still make little sense in terms of what works, and have the habit of talking in quite fluffy terms. You also keep changing your angle slightly, but still say the same things, without saying anything of substance.
Thus, when one looks at the bottom line, something which you don't seem to have a grip on, there is little to differentiate what you say about business from that of a spotty, teenage, FB addict. Reading your advice is a bit like listening to virgins talk about sex.
I don't wish to be rude or attack you, but quite frankly you come over as someone who has commendable self-belief, but doesn't know anything about business metrics. You quote like a Covey book, but offer little else. Business is not simple, as your brand states, it is incredibly serious, and involves a disciplined application of solid, proven, techniques and tools of which takes years to become a master of application. That is why there are only a handful of people in the World who offer what works, the DC team and Robert being one of those rarities.
If it seems as though I'm having a go at you, it isn't personal, it is that I can't abide people who give unsubstantiated advice which contradicts the evidence from proven research, and I feel even worse about those who sell/peddle it.
The fact that you don't see fit to regulate your success down to one business segment, i.e. the one you have experience at, is naive, and although your motives may be good, it is quite dishonest.
Besides, I've already conceded that it may work for retail, to a degree, but the fact that you propound FB as a Holy Grail that fits all businesses makes you somewhat dangerous, if someone who's business is struggling were to take your advice.
It is wonderful for the FB founders that they have such die-hard fans as you, but the blind eventually see what was always there, that there are limits to what a single, nonexclusive, social networking platform will do. Perhaps you will be a late developer.
As to my own perspective, and as you ask for my qualifications, aside from having worked as part of many successful businesses, the successes of which were partly built on "hearsay," (an invaluable tool for those who choose their counsel wisely,) my latest venture was as a co-founder and developer of the award winning services m3planning dot com, a product of which is mystrategicplan dot com.
Aside from this I work with industry as an individual, to help others, but also to keep my perspective current and valid.
Thank you for asking, and good luck with your FB. I trust you'll continue to have lots of fun with it.
Yes Karin, nice website, a little dated and uninspiring in terms of energy, also does not convey the elegance one would expect, but ok.
Surprised that there is a booklet that one has to purchase. Why not draw them in in a friendlier way?
Congratulations on your "best ever" Feb and March, but we have gone in a circle again - how do you know where your results come from? How do you know that FB is pivotal to your success to date? How do you know that your latest success isn't simply organic?
Also, I think we've now established that retail is, in fact, entirely different from professional services. Still 100% unconvinced about your FB approach being worth revenue.
Good luck for the rest of 2009!
Robert Ashton, interesting angle, but is FB faster than email?
Sorry to jump in again so soon on this thread. But, aside from the regular data leaks by FB, isn't it a little worrying for your clientele that your shared information is posted on what is essentially a public forum?
So, what are the real benefits over the proven, successful means of contact?
Robert, understood, and delighted to hear that DC aims to stay "profitable."
As to the teenage experience, indeed, I had a similar one I wanted to try - the first time didn't last long, nor did it live up to expectations for those involved.
Thus, the only thing to do was to find out what worked, (especially as there were many, false fables about the miraculous, usually from those who hadn't but said they had,) practice this, and give up what clearly didn't.
This all lead to a largely successful series of outcomes, and a great deal of satisfaction, or dare I say - ROI!
Tim Ferriss On Facebook, Twitter And Building A Huge Web Brand
http://blogs.forbes.com/stevenbertoni/2011/04/14/tim-ferriss-on-facebook-twitter-and-building-a-huge-web-brand/
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